Andrea Rossi on the E-Cat – Part 1/2


Ecatreport met with Dr. Rossi in Stockholm on the 5th of July during his business trip to Uppsala University, where talks about E-cat had occurred earlier the same day with Sven Kullander and Hanno Essén. Rossi was kind enough to give us a short interview about his amazing discovery, many anecdotes never published before.

On how Rossi and Professor Focardi started working together
Driven and excited by the exothermic phenomenon,  Rossi first looked at the Nickel-Hydrogen “cold fusion” process already in the 90′s, but it wasn’t until 2007 he reached an essential breakthrough, producing excess heat in huge amounts in his lab. This was not only by chance or sheer luck, but rather a direct result of a long trial and error process where a vast amount of different configurations of the E-cat have been tried. And finally a, stable, reproducible configuration was found.

Back then, in 2007, Andrea Rossi knew there was no turning back. He instantly realized the need of a 3rd party expert verification. Mainly because of caution since at these energy levels, both gamma radiation and neutron radiation could be lethal. He needed external verification and assurance that the amount of radiation was low enough to be non-hazardous.

Rossi knew he was on to something big, something so powerful it could change the world forever. There was no room for mistakes here.

In July 2007 Rossi therefore contacted one of the most respected physics scientists in the Nickel-Hydrogen field, Professor Emeritus Sergio Focardi at the Bologna University. Professor Focardi, who had been researching Nickel-hydrogen phenomenon since early 90’s was intrigued. Another reason Rossi decided to contact Prof. Focardi was that he felt that he was at a point where all other projects had to be dropped in favor for the E-Cat. An invention of this magnitude would require all his focus.


The E-Cat Prize Challenge
With a smile on his face, Andrea Rossi tells a fun anecdote from his first encounter with Professor Focardi. For Rossi it was all or nothing. Before putting all eggs in the same basket, he needed to be absolutely 100% percent sure of it’s capabilities. So Rossi arranged a challenge for Prof. Focardi, telling him “I will give you a prize (size non-disclosed) if you can show me that what I have done is wrong and does not work”.

Sergio Focardi accepted the challenge immediately and examined the E-Cat under great scrutiny for several days in a controlled environment.

A few days later he came back disappointed but with a smiling grin on his face telling Rossi that he was sorry (for not winning the prize) and that he believed that the Energy Catalyzer truly worked as stated. From that day on Andrea Rossi buried all other projects and hired Prof. Focardi as a consultant and started collaborating on the continued development of the E-Cat.

With Prof. Focardi’s experience in the field, the continuous development of the E-cat would be safe guarded against dangerous levels of radiation which is needed partly for product safety reasons, but most importantly for personal safety reasons – or in Andrea Rossi’s own words: “I am not the suicidal kind of person”.

Andrea Rossi on finding the right Nickel powder
Already from the beginning, Rossi looked at the powder form of the fuel because he wanted to increase the surface area of the Nickel so that more entrance points per volume unit for the hydrogen gas could occur.

Andrea Rossi stresses that, although one might first think “the finer the better” because the finer the powder the more surface area per volume you get, this is not the case. Because in order to reach useful reaction rates with hydrogen, the powder needs to processed in a way that leads to amplified tubercles on the surface.

The tubercles are essential in order for the reaction rate to reach levels high enough for the implied total power output per volume or mass to reach orders of magnitude kW/kg – this level of power density is required for any useful application of the process.

Rossi tells that he worked every waking hour for six months straight, trying dozens of combinations to find the optimal powder size for the Energy Catalyzer, or E-Cat. He further stresses that specific data about the final optimal grain size cannot be revealed, but can tell us that the most efficient grain size is more in the micrometer range rather than the nanometer range.

Andrea Rossi on the secret catalyst
In most physics related forums on the internet, physicists are speculating at this point about what the function of the secret catalyst or “secret sauce” really is. An earlier popular speculation was that the “secret catalyst” was used to separate the Hydrogen molecules into Hydrogen atoms, which are then more easily absorbed by the Nickel lattice.

Today we are proud  to be able to add a new piece of the puzzle to that discussion by questioning wether the substance is used to amplify the prominent tubercles on the surface of the grains. This speculation makes sense since we have been told that both surface area and surface texture has a big impact on the reaction frequency.

If the tubercles on the surface did not affect the reaction itself they would then only affect the loading time of the Hydrogen into the Nickel lattice and not the reaction rate inside the lattice. For all knows from what Rossi has told us, that doesn’t seem to be the case and a qualified guess would be that the reaction is most intense at the surface of the powder.

Andrea Rossi is still working on several elements and substances to improve the catalysts for the Hydrogen-Nickel reaction, and he has been doing so for the past four, five years. The most effective catalyst found so far, was at one stage abandoned in the search for an even more effective one, but was later reinstated because, overall, it proved to be the most effective one.

Rossi on the Energy Catalyzer tests
The University of Bologna test on the 14 Jan 2011 was decided upon already in October-November 2010 and was more or less enforced by Prof. Focardi. Both the University and Professor Focardi himself were very eager to make this test, in order to show the world the game changing developments that have been made in a field that, historically, has suffered such bad reputation in mainstream scientific community since Fleischmann–Pons cold fusion research in 1989 failed to deliver replication.

Andrea Rossi himself was very skeptical about such an early test, as he, as an inventor and entrepreneur was more eager to develop the end product than to step forward as a public figure in the scientific community. However, in the end he felt obliged to go along with the testing because the Bologna University has had prominent historic figures such as Nicolaus Copernicus working there and he was impressed that the University was prepared to champion this new technology. After all, University of Bologna is the oldest continually operating university in the world with roots from the 11th century.

One negative aspect of these early tests was that they required a lot of time, and deviated from Rossi’s original research plan and therefore slowed down the product development. Rossi has also been exposed to journalists in the past who are more interested in discrediting him and his research than to objectively explore this new groundbreaking technology.

Today, Andrea Rossi is so tired from all the journalistic inquiries that he has decided, from now on, to let the E-Cat talk for itself. He stresses, though, that not all bad has come from these tests; through them he has gotten to know many interesting persons. As examples he mentions three Swedes in particular: Mats Lewan from Ny Teknik, Professor Sven Kullander from Uppsala University and Professor Hanno Essén, from the University of Stockholm.

These persons have increased and influenced Andrea Rossi’s appreciation of Sweden tremendously, to some extent because of their scientific approach but also because Andrea Rossi find them to be genuinely warm hearted persons.

Andrea Rossi on letting some universities test the E-Cat
Rossi went to Uppsala, Sweden the 4th to 5th of July 2011 in order to enter an agreement with Uppsala University enabling them to do research on the physics behind the E-Cat. Because nothing has been signed yet, he cannot reveal any details of the content other than both Sven Kullander and Hanno Essén belong to the small group of researchers selected and trusted to perform research on the E-Cat.

Rossi is also pleased that he has gotten to know several new intriguing scientists at Uppsala University and that a lot of important research is expected to come out of this co-operation agreement. Rossi also mentions his appreciation for learning something new every time he comes to Sweden.

This time he was handed a new interesting explanation of the E-Cat process from an article written by Professor Yeong E. Kim at the Purdue University, Indiana. This report gave, according to Rossi, a better understanding of the driving process in the E-Cat than the previously most dominant explanation: Widom-Larsen theory. will publish a separate article on Professor Yeong E. Kim report but for now you can find his interesting research paper “Generalized Theory of Bose-Einstein Condensation Nuclear Fusion for Hydrogen-Metal System” to download on the Purdue University´s website here.

On subject whether some isotopes of Nickel works better than others
Rossi has previously said that Nickel 58 does not work but when asked the question again he stresses that he is not completely sure if it works or not, but explains that the reaction rates of Ni 62 and Ni 64 far exceeds that of Ni 58.

This makes these isotopes the most significant contributors to the exothermic process of the E-Cat. It is hard to find the exact reaction rates because the isotope analysis post-reaction and the isotope analysis pre-reaction differs with so small ratios in Ni 58 so it is hard to exclude errors and local variations.

The post-reaction analysis shows a copper isotope ratio of Cu 63/Cu 65 ~ 1.6, while the natural occurrence show a ratio of Cu 63/Cu 65 ~ 2.24 which is a statistically significant difference. That, of course, excludes contamination as an explanation of Copper content in the post reaction samples.

On the 1 MW plant demonstration
The date of the first demonstration of the 1 MW plant has been set to the fourth week of October.  It will be held in Xanthi in Greece at the first factory built by Defkalion Green Technologies.


Next part of the series will be published tomorrow.


Meanwhile you can discuss this interview on our new forum

7 total comments on this postSubmit yours
  1. Ecatreport
    after the interview you have a better idea about what enrichment process Rossi does to Ni? 

    • We are not sure if the powder is enriched or not but we do know it is at least not fully isotope separated. Rossi did not fully reveal what processing stages they had on the powder but he stressed that the reaction rates of Ni 58 was far below that of Ni 62 and Ni 64 so the feeling we got was that Ni 62 and Ni 64 was the main contributors to the energy production.

    • Probably a single or twice pass in an ultra centrifuge. They just have to exclude nickel bellow mass 60, with a safety margin to avoid radioactive waste.   The difference in weight is around 10% and not like 1 for uranium isotopes, which besides a lot of passes, just specific weights must be separated.

      A centrifuge for medical exams should be enough.

  2. Anyhow,

    this is very important, because I observed it and then told Sergio. If
    we degassed (nickel powder, at this point) at an extremely
    low pressure,
    i.e.. 10-6,
    which is one-millionth of atmospheric
    pressure, for one week at a
    temperature of 500° [Celsius], so that all the oxides on
    the surface of
    the micro-particles of nickel were eliminated (this means
    all of the
    oxides that have formed, because we are surrounded by an
    atmosphere) … well, upon charging it, it sucked up, how
    can I put it,
    an enormous quantity of hydrogen (I was using
    hydrogen). And the
    temperature, which had been 500°, began to rise considerably, and got
    higher and higher, over the 1000° mark. I got scared, and shut
    everything down [laughs], because, I said to myself, “This is going to
    blow up”!I think this is important

    • Dear Mr Douglas,

      this is very interesting news. This more or less underlines the theory that the reaction is most prominent near the surface. You say you told Sergio, does that mean you have worked with him on this or do you work in a separate research group? It would be nice to here more about your picture of the reaction.


  3. ” An earlier popular speculation was that the “secret catalyst” was used to separate the Hydrogen molecules into Hydrogen atoms, which are then more easily absorbed by the Nickel lattice.”

    It is an accepted fact that hydrogen must be in the atomic state in order to be dissolved into steel.

  4. The grain size is visible in the photos of the patent pending… 2.5 – 5 micrometers in diameter. That was never a secret…

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